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  • Bullying and Unkindness on Teamspeak

    Dear Flying Family,

    As you may or May not know, I am Kamil and I have been part of MsFlights.net for around 3 months. I have had a problem arise on teamspeak in which I have spoken to an operator about, yet I feel it is worth raising awareness about to the admins and henceforth; so since I have nothing better to do at this point, I feel I would write a short essay for you about my recent experiences with Joe.

    First of all, I will explain the details. Recently, i was in the RAF Virtual which was something made by Tom and Joe to fly military aircraft in. After one short hour of teaching me, he said that I cannot fly military jets because I am too bad at it. Hence, I was thrown into a propellor plans to 'teach me how to fly.' My confidence continued to fall as I was made to feel unwanted so I quit it. Since then, I have been tortured, abused, harassed, bullied and even buzzed as I have tried to control and fly on the network. This hasn't stopped as Joe has said lies about me many times to my dismay and as a negative element against my reputation.

    Here are some of the facts. I firstly know that Alex, before he was banned, has had similar problems with Joe but he didn't report It to an admin. Secondly, Michael Law has noticed how Joe has been acting with me and others. Thirdly, Dehan has been bullied and abused by Joe in the past too and he has seen with his own eyes how Joe has been acting with me.

    Overall, I would firstly like to thank anyone who got to this point without getting bored and frustrated. Yet I strongly believe that this cannot be happening on MsFlights.net and we should be able to easily be able to log on without this happening. Thank you for reading!
    Last edited by Djchanas; October 24, 2014, 05:59 PM.

  • #2
    Just a couple of questions I'm sure most of us are wondering,

    Whom did you talk to as an Operator about this matter?
    When did you complain?
    What was their response?
    Which Joe are you referring to?
    Other than saying you were terrible in a jet, what other statements have been made directed at you?
    How were you tortured?
    How were you abused?
    How were you harassed?
    Did they seek you out?
    What type of lies has Joe spread about you?

    Red Flag: Mentioning Alex in any form of formal complaint or thread is discrediting any validity to this for me personally. If you know Alex, you know his status here. I don't see how it would benefit in discussion. I will try to look past this in further judgement.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by WarHawK View Post
      Just a couple of questions I'm sure most of us are wondering,

      Whom did you talk to as an Operator about this matter? Edd
      When did you complain? Yesterday
      What was their response? Say if there are any problems, yet don't be bad in return
      Which Joe are you referring to? Joe Moore
      Other than saying you were terrible in a jet, what other statements have been made directed at you? Get Wrecked, f*** off, noob, I can't fly, ugly, I'm a little girl...
      How were you tortured? Verbally
      How were you abused? He has racially abused black people multiple times in the past (I'm mixed race)
      Did they seek you out? In what way?
      What type of lies has Joe spread about you? That I have been spreading negative rumours about him, advertising etc

      Red Flag: Mentioning Alex in any form of formal complaint or thread is discrediting any validity to this for me personally. If you know Alex, you know his status here. I don't see how it would benefit in discussion. I will try to look past this in further judgement.
      Ok

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by WarHawK View Post

        Red Flag: Mentioning Alex in any form of formal complaint or thread is discrediting any validity to this for me personally. If you know Alex, you know his status here. I don't see how it would benefit in discussion. I will try to look past this in further judgement.
        I disagree with that entirely. How on earth does him mentioning that Alex had a problem with Joe suddenly make every other complaint of his invalid? :ambivalence: If you don't think this complaint is valid then just let people who do deal with it, comments like that will do nothing but further alienate someone who already feels like they are being bullied. You're shunning every valid complaint he may or may not have simply because he mentioned another user and it's ridiculous. Hopefully I'm not the only who feels this way.

        DJ, for the time being, I suggest you do your best to avoid the users who you have an issue with until this whole thing can be resolved. Sorry that you had this experience on our server, we have plenty of very friendly and helpful and encouraging pilots, seek them out if possible. It's important to approach someone with a shield as soon as something like that happens, and if possible get any evidence to support your claims (voice recording, screenshots, copy/pastes of text messages etc). I encourage you to get Dehan and anyone else you can who has had an issue with Joe to also come forward to back up your claims as well.

        PM me if you have any further questions or concerns.
        Facebook: www.facebook.com/msflights
        Steam Group:
        http://steamcommunity.com/groups/msflights
        YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/MSFlightsMedia


        Comment


        • #5
          Actually, AK, Warhawk, Alex had no such experience here. I personally dealt with Alex and all the stuff dealing with Alex. I spoke with him on MANY occasions about not just his behavioral issues, but about his personal struggles with not acting out toward people and causing problems. The only reason Alex was here as long as he was is because I kept him out of the fire as long as I did. If Alex was experiencing anything like what Kamil suggests, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we would have discussed it (Alex and I).

          Second Point. RAF Virtual Airlines in NOT associated or supported by MSFlights.net. This Joe that was mentioned is not an operator or admin here, he is a group flight leader for this RAF Virtual that again, is not our VA. So I believe that Kamil has more of a perception than an actual issue of the administrative staff here at MSFlights.

          Kamil or Djchanas or whatever your gamertag is.... I have some questions for you about your experience and would like to talk to you personally about it. I would like to get a better idea of what happened, because while you may have thought you wrote a novel, there wasn't a lot of substance that we can really work with. Certainly, I never like to hear that someone is being bullied in our server. I don't like hearing that people are not having anything but a good time here. However, that being said, I often find that these situations are easily resolved, so get a hold of me and you and I will get to the bottom of this.

          Fair enough?
          HawgDawg4Life.....

          HawgDawg4life@msflights.net
          See my videos Here

          Comment


          • #6
            Kamil, thanks specifically for answering WarHawK's questions in WarHawK's post # 2 accurately and succinctly. Unlike HawgDawg states in his third paragraph of his post #5 in this thread, I found your explanation of your problem and your reference to the incidents that brought you here to write about it informative and of just about the proper length. I don't know more than I read on forums of what you speak but I am as concerned as the other staff who's comments you read here about the general topic of unkindnesses expressed on our TeamSpeak as well as all our other facilities. I'll look you up on TeamSpeak to further educate myself but, alas, it's real busy here in my world and I fear that by the time I do log on and find you, the discussion will be moot or resolved. I'll try, tho.

            While I ardently support discussion of important topics raised by our members here in public forum, I also endorse the staff level discussions those members' postings necessitate. Some portions of this discussion I feel are traditionally and rightfully conducted in the staff-private forums, 'specially when our staff speaks directly to one another or about topics needing resolution and incorporation into our official customs and rules. CaseyRyback has created such a staff-private thread on this subject. Some of my counsel specificly directed to our staff will utilize that staff forum thread.

            Members reading...do see and know that ideas, concerns and recommendations you post on these pages ARE read and, for the most part, explained and acted upon. Take my personal encouragement to keep it up.
            Respects, Bob ...

            Comment


            • #7
              I did have problems with him and I know Kamil did too. I would sit in there room I would get made fun and they would make jokes about me and other members he was mean in short. Kamils a nice guy and I personal witnessed them picking on him and making fun of him and harassing him. I did not tell anyone because I was trying to lay under the radar at the time. I did not want to be involved in any problems.
              Last edited by FSXAlex; October 26, 2014, 05:07 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                To clarify What i know here after hearing both sides and also speaking with the head of the va that they both fly for.

                Joe and kamil have been having a fall out over on the British airways virtual teamspeak that seems to be continued over here i spoke with kamil yesterday and told him to stay away from joe and tell me if he causes any more trouble i then went to joe and heard his side that pretty much say kamil has been trying to get him kicked out of the ba virtual group and that is where the issue came from i told joe to also stay away from kamil and report any contact to me to which they both agreed i then went and spoke to the owner of the va they are in and he said kamil seems to be desperate to get rid of joe and had just reported him for being rude.
                As far as i understand neither side have contacted each other since our talk and i thought the issue was resolved.
                I will say these are to younger members with large ego's and i have had to have words with both members on and off of msflights.net teamspeak.

                I would also like to add that i was once had a lead role in the raf-virtual but left when i got nominated for SO here and it got taken over by some other members and has actually been shut down for nearly 2 months so i think these are old issues but issues none the less.
                I always try to remain a neutral party despite my msflights friendships.
                and i felt this was resolved but kamil obviously feels it needs further attention so im am lost as to what to do now when neither party are no longer talking to each other.
                Hope this clears at least some of this up and if i can help anymore then come find me in teamspeak.
                Edd
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd also like to clarify some things.
                  First off, this ''RAF'' Group was headed by me, not Joe, has been disbanded and reformed into a BF4/DayZ or whatever we want clan, so this is definately an old issue. Joe was a commander of a seperate Squadron, not of the vRAF in general.
                  Additionally, Joe hasn't been in contact with Kamil, nor connected to MS-Flights for more than 10 minutes in the past 1-2 weeks or so.
                  Also, when Kamil joins, he sometimes provokes Joe, sending snide comments his way and trying to show off his skills. Joe isn't a saint, he throws his share of mild insults around, but thats generally only with us, and if anyone else gets caught in the crossfire thats generally because someone he doesn't know throws something back at him trying to ''defend'' one of us. I'd like to stress the importance of the next 2 sentences, as this is an aging issue that, if it was that bad, should have been reported a while back.

                  Going back to the RAF issue, it's true. Joe put it literal, he didn't sugarcoat it, but that's just who he is, and after that session it may interest you that I had a word with him and he's calmed down a tad.

                  Regarding the tiff over on the BA Virtual teamspeak-
                  Joe left the VA unofficially recently because of the constant dogging from the staff about certain complaints from Kamil, nothing to worry about there though, I dont want it carried on over here.

                  Also clearing up a final part of the RAF group- it's officially gone, it was gone prior to Edd being added as an SO, we dropped it when the Red Arrows was around, was revived briefly by me for about a month or so, then disbanded and it's probably gone permanently. I doubt it'll be returning unless someone else wants to do it.

                  Regarding the insults: I highly doubt that ''get wrecked noob'' is an insult. The ''f*ck off'' parts are stuff he says in general, if we taunt him and he doesn't have a response to it, he'll just say that. Not an excuse, just a reason. He never tell someone whose just joined the channel to ''f*ck off'', and I've never heard him use anything remotely related to the ''I'm a little girl'' part, but considering you're saying ''I'm a little girl'' ''I can't fly'', I'm wondering who you are talking about.

                  I'll be glad to offer any info about either party, I'm sounding biased now but ask me something and I'll tell you truthfully what you need to know.
                  Last edited by Cobra; October 25, 2014, 06:10 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We appreciate your backstory and your counsel, Cobra. Your words to us here paint you as a truly capable community administrator. Thank you for it.

                    Edd, it sounds like you've been working on related issues to Kamil's OP and that you have this situation under control. Thanks. Edd, I'll forward you a relevant email and let you decide how to further disclose its information. I lack the personal knowledge to do so which you posses. Because of my lack of specific issue knowledge, I shouldn't be involved in any resolution. Such resolution is in capable hands.

                    I continue to be pleased (mostly) with the tone and affect contributing members and staff are addressing Kamil's OP.
                    Respects, Bob ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's how I see it. They are both younger guys (kids), and this is, while maybe an item of concern, is also slightly immature. I'd go so far as to say it may actually be a waste of time. Kamil, you and Joe seem to have some sort of an issue, I know because I've witnessed the two of you going back and forth. That means that you and Joe need to work it out between the two of you.

                      Do I understand why you've brought it to the attention of the members and staff here? Yeah, I understand. It's not cool that there should be issues like this between members of our community. This is supposed to be a place to come, chill, and have a good time. However, having said all that I reiterate that this ultimately is an issue that is between you (Kamil), and Joe, therefore the two of you need to work it out. I have no problem with someone moderating it, heck I'll even volunteer to be the moderator.

                      At the end of the day I think that it's important that members of this community be expected to, regardless of age, behave like adults. That means that they should be expected to handle petty issues in an adult manner. So with the above information and my knowledge and experience listening to the two of you go back and forth (because I don't believe it's entirely one sided) my suggestion is that you guys work it out. Want a badge present? Fine, I volunteer. But at the same time you need to learn how to work things like this out on your own. No hard feelings brother but this is just how the world works.

                      As I've stated above I'll gladly help to oversee some sort of a pow wow between you two so we can settle this. Feel free to contact me or ask me about it sometime if you see me on the server, but I think that this is a petty issue and not necessarily one that warrants a forum thread.
                      Sincerely,
                      -Gimpy
                      When God finally says, "King, my office. Now!" I want to go barreling in there half spun out with holes in my clothes, smoke rising from me, and my hair in a mess. I want to be busy. I don't want to go explain myself and not have a great story to go along with it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kamil I have witnessed you pushing Joe's buttons as well so don't portray yourself as being innocent. As far as I'm concerned you are equally guilty as him. Stay away from him (as I have told you before). Don't go into a channel where he is to try and incite a reaction.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Kalo, they push each-others buttons, but what gets me is when me and Joe occasionally sit in a channel together, in comes Kamil, and usually within about 5-10 minutes all conversation is dead because something sparked an argument, and then we just dont put up with it and leave. I may be right in saying he does it back to him, but I haven't seen it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am going to remind everyone that this post started as a complaint about the MSFlights Staff and that Joe is NOT msflights staff and that the BA VA and the RAF VA are not sanctioned by, nor supported by MSFlights staff. So lets deal with the brass tax. Joe, and Kamil, and Alex have something of a sorted triangle of anarchy that involves a VA that is not supported by msflights. If, these comments from Joe are happening on our server, I want to know about it, and talk to Joe, however, if this is not the case Joe, Alex, and Kamil have all received council to stay away from each other.

                            This situation, which is about personality conflicts, has acquired far more attention from the group than it every should have and needs to be addressed on a smaller scale. As such, I am personally taking ownership of this situation and would like to speak with Kamil, Alex, and Joe.

                            So, Kamil, Alex, and Joe (whom I have never spoken before now), I would like for you to get ahold of me. In game, by email, I dont care. My email address is Hawgdawg4life@msflights.net.

                            The time has come and gone to put this to bed.
                            HawgDawg4Life.....

                            HawgDawg4life@msflights.net
                            See my videos Here

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Joe was also doing similar things to me as well. He was being very disrespectful, such as saying stuff about my sister that I am not comfortable stating the content on the forums, and saying very bad things about me as well. What also hurts me is as far as I know, Edd didn't speak to Joe and (Edd) was in the channel. This happened more than once. Someone doing these things should no be tolerated and should be dealt with immediatly.

                              Kamil, I share you frustration and being bullied by Joe. If you need to talk about this I'd be happy to.

                              Comment

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